MUFON UFO JOURNAL
AN INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT LAZAR
by John Kirby
From inside the Little A'Le'Inn, shadow physicist Bob Lazar fields questions about Area S-4 and UFOs
For many of those who attended the "Ultimate UFO Conference" at the Little A'Le'lnn in Rachel, Nevada, just outside the boundary of Area 51, there were interesting presentations and some disappointments. George Knapp, the Las Vegas television reporter who gave a great deal of air time to the Bob Lazar story and Gene Huff, a close associate of Lazar, were unable at the last minute to attend the conference. However, on Saturday, May 1, Bob Lazar came to meet with the attendees and answer questions. For most people his attendance was the highlight of the conference. Lazar, who arrived in a car with Nevada license plate "MJ-12", was cordial and seemed a bit uncomfortable in the spotlight. He had no planned formal presentation but was willing to answer nearly all questions put to him. The only ones he declined to address had either to do with specific people who preferred to remain anonymous, or with patents which he is currently working on. Lazar's main presentation took place in a large tent erected outside the Inn for the conference. But since a presentation was in progress when he arrived, he agreed to sit and answer questions for a small group of people inside the Inn itself before the main session. A tape recording was made of this informal "press conference", portions of which are printed here with Lazar's permission.
WHO IS BOB LAZAR?
Before delving into the transcript, it would be appropriate to review Bob Lazar's claims and his background. Lazar claims to have degrees in Physics and Electronics Technology and claims to have attended Cal Tech and MIT. In the mid to late 1980s, Lazar worked at Los Alamos Labs in New Mexico. Then, over a period of five or six days between December of 1988 and April of 1989, he was allegedly employed at a desert test area called S-4, a job which he believes may have been arranged through the efforts of the famous physicist Edward Teller. S-4 is about 15 miles south of Area 51. Some 125 miles north of Las Vegas, Area 51 has been the secret test site for such aircraft as the U-2 and Stealth Fighter. Lazar claims that no alien craft are being tested at Area 51. After his arrival at S-4, Lazar claims to have received a short briefing paper about two pages long which essentially stated that extraterrestrial exist, they have been involved in human history and their spacecraft are being housed at S-4. Bob was told that it was his assignment to assist in "back engineering" the propulsion system of one of the craft. Back engineering means analyzing something that already exists and figuring out how it works. Efforts by Lazar and others were allegedly successful -the propulsion system's basic theory of operation was determined, although there was only minor success duplicating the engineering with earthly technology. Test flights of the craft were held periodically in the immediate vicinity of S-4. Lazar had access to the test schedules. After working at S-4 for a time, he met John Lear, son of the founder of the Lear Jet enterprise. He invited or agreed to take John to a location near S-4 to view one of the tests, and in the process was discovered by base security. This and some other factors led to Lazar subsequently leaving the program. His experiences were made public shortly thereafter. Since that time, Lazar has made few public appearances, but did make a video tape which summarized his experiences and explained the basic operating theory of the crafts' propulsion system. His appearance at the A'Le'lnn conference was one of those rare appearances.
The transcript which follows is nearly verbatim. However, exact transcripts, filled with awkward phrasing, along with "I mean's" and "you know's", are difficult to read. Therefore, some of the phrasing is changed and some extraneous words are deleted. Where non trivial paraphrasing was done, or where words were added to clarify statements, those changes and additions are enclosed in brackets. Editorial comments are enclosed in brackets with "Ed. note" added. "Q" refers to questioner (there were about ten people present). "BL" refers to Bob Lazar. To protect the privacy of certain individuals, some full proper names have been deleted.
Q: You mentioned that you didn't like the way work was being conducted at S-4. What did you mean?
BL: What I meant was that it was being conducted by unqualified people. They were looking at duplicating the hardware and not trying to back engineer the theory. I contend that there was certainly no reason to pick me to work on the project except that I would come at the problem from a different angle. That was my main complaint. The second complaint was that there was definitely a lack of equipment there, and in any kind of project along those lines, that high level of security does not go well with scientific research. You couldn't get things out of rooms. You had to be escorted all the time. I'm at a loss for words. A scientific environment just can't be like that.
Q: Where is S-4 relative to Papoose Lake? Is it at the base of Papoose mountain?
BL: Yes. If you're on the lake, it's just west of Papoose Lake. You can look out of the bay doors at S-4 and see the lake out there.
Q: What was the ratio of security people to scientists out there?
BL : (Laughs) A million to one.
BL: I have no idea. You're talking about 22 people [unintelligible phrase]. You're secure in the test site already, and it's not like there's going to be an invasion team coming over the hill. I have no idea what the level of security was for. It's possible that security during my time was increased because around the time I got there, I know that the Russians were involved in what we were doing.
Q: Why was that?
BL : I don't know. All I know is that some large discovery was made. Exactly what that was, I don't know. I think security was more concerned about the Russians, maybe there was a fear that the Russians would latch onto one of the U.S. scientists.
Q: What time were the Soviets kicked out?
BL: Right after I got there, around the first of '89.
Q: Did you ever personally work with any Soviets?
BL: No, I never did see them, I just heard that they were there.
Q: I was wondering, do you have formulas written down concerning element 115 as to how it emits the gravity waves?
BL: Just stuff that we scribbled down.
Q: Can it be reduced to formulas?
BL: I'm sure everything can. You know you need to play around with it some more.
Q: Did you live on the base?
BL: No. But I know that people do.
Q: So they moved you to and from Vegas each day?
Q: Who runs security? Do they have a parent organization? Wackenhut?
BL: No, don't think it was Wackenhut. I don't know who they were but I never paid attention to it there.
Q: Did they have names on their uniforms?
Q: How would you describe their uniforms?
BL: Some guys just had straight dark blue on. Other guys that were outside had that desert camouflage, you know that beige-colored stuff on. But for the most part, they had dark blue uniforms on.
Q: There were people who confirmed your information to George Knapp. Do you know who they are?
BL: Yeah. He knows one of the guys in blue. So I think George knows what organization they're a part of.
Q: Did they give George their names? Did he talk to you to confirm that they were associated with S-4?
BL: Well, one person related information to George, and so George asked the person to describe stuff that I haven't told other people, for example, where various things were located in the complex, and everything the person said was right, so there's no doubt that he was there.
Q: Did you have friends you worked with that you also socialized with?
BL: No. [unintelligible] I was becoming friends with one guy I worked with but . . .
Q: Do you speak now to anybody from that time period?
BL: No, but I wish I could.
Q: In your tape, you talked about possible alien influence in history. You said you read some things about that in your initial briefing at S-4, but you did not go into the details in your video tape. Can you share anything more about that?
BL: All I know is really what I said in the tape: that there were 65 or 66 corrections [Ed note: referring to past alien genetic corrections of the human race, I believe] but you know, I can only put so much credit in that stuff.
Q: You said that there were actual video tapes that existed of historical events, apparently made by aliens. I think you mentioned that in your video tape. Were those alien tapes seen by you or were they just indicated in the briefing?
BL: No, it was indicated.
Q: Before the theory was pieced together as to how these craft work, (the propulsion system, that is) what were the previous theories? Were they pursuing any other methods to accomplish the same type of travel?
BL: Well, they always knew it was some sort of field propulsion just because there were no high pressure areas, propellers, or nothing along those lines coming out of the craft, so they knew it was some soft of field propulsion, maybe electromagnetic. Essentially, they couldn't measure anything coming off the craft except by-products of the electromagnetic energy from the reactor. I think they're only pursuing gravitational propulsion.
Q: I read in a book somewhere that there was an inventor, I guess in the 40's or 50's, named Townsend Brown. From what I remember, he took an electromagnet, and when you first turn an electromagnet on, it moves. And he said that he could harness that energy to create flying crafts or what ever. Is stuff like that feasible?
BL: No. I've seen all kinds of crazy claims about how they [the craft] operate ...and I mean most of them are ridiculous.
Q: Bob, other than the propulsion technology, which is obviously the most amazing of the whole picture, was there any other technology that you saw that would be as amazing to us, maybe their communication technology?
BL: I don't know. Like I said, I was only privy to information about propulsion, but the communications really concerns me. It bothers me because it doesn't make sense. If you're dealing with an intense gravitational field that distorts everything around the craft radio waves would not be able to penetrate [the field to reach] the craft: they should be distorted just like light is around the craft. Yet, the ground controllers at S-4 were in contact with the craft during test flights. There's things that I want to know about it, and one of them is the communications. One possibility is that it is some sort of modulated gravity communication which would be unbelievable.
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