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MUFON UFO JOURNAL
October 1993

AN INTERVIEW WITH ROBERT LAZAR

Part 3 | <--

Q: Why were they killed? Why were they co-located with the device or even the vicinity? Wouldn't you do this remotely?

BL: They were doing it remotely. If you've ever seen any of the [blast] rooms they have there [where nuclear weapons are tested underground], they have an area where the device goes, and removed back, there are blast doors where there's recording equipment. And you know, usually you can get the recording equipment after the detonation. Well [laughs] those two [blast] doors apparently weren't together and that room was destroyed.

Q: Bob, you left there in what, '89, four years ago?

BL: Something like that.

Q: Do you think they've evolved to the point in their back-engineering work that they're flying the craft a little bit more? How fast were they evolving?

BL: Extremely slow. Extremely slow.

Q: Before they would fly these craft around the world or take them out in the solar system or something like that, do you think?

BL: They've never left the atmosphere with the craft. Positively not.

Q: [Do you know if it] will take 10 years, 20 years to do that?

BL: I don't know if they'll do that. They are so paranoid when the thing lifts off the ground and over to the right [laughs], people are sitting there praying that it comes back, and they never -

Q: It's an extremely complicated thing to pilot?

BL: I don't know. I have no idea how to navigate the thing. If someone threw me in the middle of it, I wouldn't have the slightest idea how to get it off the ground.

Q: You mentioned when you went inside the sport model [Bob's nickname for the particular craft he worked on] it had really short chairs. Do you think they accommodated these to fit human pilots for the [tests]?

BL: They must have.

Q: Do you regret now having gone public?

BL: In some ways, yeah, but for the most part no.

Q: Were you glad you did it?

BL : Well it was more or less for selfish reasons because I [two words unintelligible] that's essentially what it was. Was I concerned that the world knew? No. [laughs]

Q: How do you feel about coming out here to this conference today?

BL: Coming out here today? I have no problem with it. Enough time has gone by. They say time heals all wounds. So -

Q: Do you feel like you've done the right thing?

BL: Ah [pauses], yeah. Yeah I do. I really wish I had stayed with the project longer, though, because I really do want to know more about the technology.

Q: Were you ever briefed or made aware of any other propulsion system other than the one you worked on?

BL: [No verbal answer, but I assume he was shaking his head no.]

Q: Bob, usually when they have people like yourself working on something like propulsion, it [the secret information] is very highly compartmentalized. They don't talk about anything else [except what you need to know] but you said that when you first got there, they showed you briefing papers about various topics. Why do you think they did that?

BL: Yeah, virtually everything [is compartmentalized]. I imagine that was just to relieve any possible questions. But remember, when I talk about briefings, I'm talking about two sheets of paper, just like "this is what's going on with the rest of the craft, this is what you're working on." And then the bulk of the information percent - dealt specifically with what I was going to be working on. So, anyway, it was to alleviate any questions of "Well, where did this come from?"

Q: You said you had 38 levels [of security clearance] above "Q." [Ed note: "Q" is itself a high level clearance]

BL: Yeah, that's what I was told.

Q: How many levels are there?

BL: I don't know.

Q: Have you ever heard of higher levels?

BL: It never came up.

Q: Did you ever hear rumors of major government officials coming in to get tours, like congressman or whatever?

BL: I heard rumors of that, but you know from what I was told when I was there, no one has ever stepped in there from any faction of the government, Navy or whatever. People get tours of [Area] 51 all the time, but I've never heard of anyone coming up through there [S-4].

Q: Have you talked to any astronauts? Anybody who's walked on the moon?

BL: Yeah.

Q: And corresponded with them?

BL: Well, they've come out to visit me.

Q: They approached you? They initiated contact with you?

BL: [Non-verbal answer but from the flow of the following questions, I assume Lazar nodded yes.]

Q: Like [astronaut's name deleted] or somebody like that?

BL: No, not [astronaut's name]. [Ed Note: the questioners proposed some additional names to which Lazar did not respond.] You can't say who? One of them was [name deleted]. He was the [number deleted] man on the moon.

Q: What did he have to say to you?

BL: Well, there's a faction of those guys that are...they're into it, but I guess it's dangerous. Well not really "dangerous" [but difficult] for them to express interest, but you know, these guys are on pensions for the rest of their lives and . . .

Q: What did they say to you? Right on?

BL: Yeah, that was essentially what they said to me.

Q: Bob, if you could return to work on the project, would you go?

BL: No.

Q: You would not go?

BL: No. Just because I don't trust them. If I could go with a little army [to protect me], I'd be...you know, no problem. If they'd give me stuff to do at home...[laughs] But no, I don't want to go back to a secure area in the middle of the desert. In other words, go back completely on their turf? Yeah. Not a chance.

Q: How do you feel about being such a celebrity in this area? Is it a nuisance to you?

BL: No, it's not [a nuisance]. I just don't [unintelligible reference to being low-key].

Q: What kind of work do you feel could get you excited again right now?

BL: Ah, weapons.

Q: Weapons? Because of the financial rewards?

BL: No, I like [laughs] really destructive things. [Laughter in group]

Q: That's a surprising comment!

BL: Well, you know, actually, I would have rather worked on Project Sidekick which dealt with them. Really. It would have been more along my lines I don't know what I was doing [assigned to propulsion].

Q: Do you think you'll ever get an opportunity to work in the field you want to again?

BL: Not at that level, no. But in other weapons development, I do [one word unintelligible]. You can imagine what a burst of gravity waves would do to something solid. It could be used for a lot of things.

Q: What is your background, Bob? You have a master's and bachelor's [degrees] is that right?

BL: Physics and Electronics Technology. At MIT and Cal Tech.

Q: If you had a craft with a gravity propulsion device aboard, and you were to intensify the gravity field around the craft, could it cause light to bend around it such that the craft would be cloaked from view?

BL: Yeah. It does [cloak a craft from view]. It depends where you are viewing it from. If you're directly under the craft, you see the sky above it. And if there's a mountain in back of it? I don't know how it...without actually observing it like that. I don't know what you'd see from the side or [how light waves] would travel along the side of the craft.

Q: It seems like they could operate in daytime perhaps with impunity in this way.

BL: Oh, yeah. From certain directions, I would think so.

Q: Do you think the crafts can operate invisibly, or is there always going to be some light accompanying them?

BL: No matter what, at night there's going to be a light accompanying [it]. You're dealing with a fluorescent tube essentially of a rare gas in the atmosphere and a tremendous amount of energy being generated. So the atoms in the air are essentially emitting photons.

Q: It's like a neon effect?

BL: Yeah, that's exactly what's happening. It doesn't happen in space because there is no rarified gas to illuminate. And at different levels of power you get different colors of glow. But for the most part, it should be blue: you may get a sodium yellow-or orange type color.

Q: [Somewhat difficult to hear exactly.] As you get different power levels -

BL: Yeah, it will get brighter as it [the power level] goes up. [unintelligible phrase] The gravity field should distort that light too, but it doesn't, so... [laughs]...there's a lot that doesn't make [sense].

Q: That would probably be the argon in the atmosphere that would turn blue?

BL: No, not the argon, the nitrogen would be bluish white [word unintelligible] like lightning. Argon will glow blue, too, but there's just trace amounts in the atmosphere.

Q: Did you notice the passage of time being any different inside the craft as opposed to outside?

BL: We didn't have watches. Watches, wallets and all that stuff were left at [unintelligible].

Q: When you got to observe the craft take off, did they give you instructions about things to look for?

BL: No. It was already taking off when I went out there. Dennis who was my...I think he was my supervisor...came through and said." there's a test in progress. Come on out here."

Part 1, 2, 3