Billy Goodman Happening, Nov. 21, 1989
Guest: Bob Lazar
Transcript (Partial) for Radio Call-In Talk Show
The following is a verbatim transcript of a radio call-in talk show on KVEG-AM, Las Vegas, which aired Nov. 21, 1989 from 10pm to 1am. The featured guest is Robert Lazar, a physicist who claims to have worked at a "secret flying saucer base" in Nevada. About a week before this radio interview, Lazar was featured on a series of local television reports about UFOs on Las Vegas television station KLAS-TV.
Transcribed by Glenn Campbell, March 1993. Only minimal editing has been performed. A few obvious verbal stumblings (like "um's" and partial words) have been removed, but otherwise care has been taken to preserve exactly what was said, word for word.
Note: This is an incomplete transcript. Due to lack of time, only the first half of the broadcast has been transcribed.
- Lazar: Bob Lazar.
- Goodman: Billy Goodman. Talk show host.
- Huff: Gene Huff. Friend of Bob Lazar.
- Cast of callers.
Goodman: And now is the time for Bob Lazar, our guest tonight in the studio. Bob are you there?
Lazar: Sure am.
Goodman: All right, Bob. Bob, I guess you know by now, you came on Channel 8, the CBS affiliate here in Las Vegas and came out with some startling information, mainly that there are flying saucers not too far from here, and I don't want to say Area 51, anymore, right?
Goodman: Tell us why. It's not Area 51 where they are.
Lazar: No, it's Area S-4. A lot of people get that confused. It's about ten miles south of Area 51, of Groom Lake, which is Area 51.
Goodman: But, when people try to get down the dirt road, man, they get stopped by guards. What are they protecting there?
Lazar: Oh, Groom Lake. That's Area 51.
Goodman: Okay, what's going on up at Groom Lake? Can you tell us that?
Lazar: There are actually a lot of projects are going on at Groom Lake, Area 51. One of them is Aurora, a high altitude reconnaissance aircraft designed to replace the SR-71. There are just a lot of other things going on. Some Star Wars research, but there aren't and never have been any flying saucers at Area 51, at Groom Lake.
Goodman: You have been at Area 51 so you can say that unequivocally, right?
Lazar: Oh, yeah.
Goodman: You've been there. Have you spent most of your time over at S-4, is that the case?
Lazar: Yeah, as it turns out, Groom Lake, Area 51, has a runway there, so if you want to go out to that part of the Test Site, you fly in and land at Groom Lake, and then you take a bus south to Area S-4.
Goodman: Bob, have you actually landed on that airstrip at Groom Lake?
Lazar: Yeah, every time I went out there I had to land there.
Goodman: Every time. And how often did you go out there?
Lazar: It wasn't on a regular basis. They essentially called me up and said, well, Thursday by 4:45 be at such-and-such a place and, you know, get on this plane and, you know, you'll be out there. I hadn't worked into a regular schedule, yet.
Goodman: I see. Now, how does something like this go about? You're sitting at home, and they say, now, you will be at a certain place at a certain time, or you will arrive there? How do you be sure that you can make connections to get there at 4:45? Do they take care of all of that for you, too?
Lazar: No, I just have to show up there. I mean, if I can't make it, I just have to tell them or call them with sufficient notice.
Goodman: But they want you there for a specific reason, because they want...
Lazar: Well, to get on a specific flight.
Goodman: Right. And they want you there at Groom Lake so you can get to S-4?
Goodman: And then when you get there, what are they looking for you to do?
Lazar: [Pause] Ah... [Laughs] That varied. It could be... mainly educating me, catching me up to where everyone else was.
Goodman: Oh, grooming you.
Lazar: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Goodman: Oh, I see. And what were they grooming you for, Bob?
Lazar: Well, I dealt mainly with the propulsion of the extraterrestrial craft. And there was a lot of material to read, a lot briefings, a lot of research that had been done for quite some time that I had to catch up on before I could really get into it myself, so most of the time I spent reading and going over some things. There was some hands-on experience with some of the equipment from the disks and things of that sort.
Goodman: Lets bring you back, now, to the beginning. You're a young man, let's face it. You're a young man. What was your first reaction the first time you knew for a fact that we had flying saucers in our possession, you saw them with your own eyes. What was your first reaction to this?
Lazar: Oh, it was exciting. What else can you say? It was really neat.
Goodman: [Laughs] That's a good word, really neat.
Lazar: Well, really, I guess it's the only thing you can say. But the first time I saw it and I walked in and actually saw the disk, of course I couldn't say whether or not it was an alien device or just an interesting craft that we've been developing. So it was a little while before I had ascertained that it was an extraterrestrial craft.
Goodman: And did they every explain to you how it got there?
Lazar: No, that I was never told. But they just took things very slowly. First I was exposed to the craft and then I began to read the briefings, and they were monitoring me through the whole time, so they didn't, you know... They let me take things one step at a time, as they do for everyone that works there.
Goodman: Now, you got to be honest with me. Here you are a young man, you left there, you went home to the wife, to your neighborhood, whatever, and you're sitting around having a cup of coffee, did you ever say, Hey, Man, you won't believe this, there are flying saucers.
Lazar: I stuck with the program for a little while.
Goodman: [Laughs.] What was the program? Don't tell anybody?
Lazar: Oh, most certainly.
Goodman: Oooo, there's the word, folks. In other words, you were told, don't tell anybody. In other words, keep this secret, don't let anybody know. Did they every tell you... Did you, like, being inquisitive, I'm sure, as a young man, did you ever say, Why is it that we can't tell anybody? Did you ever ask them that question?
Lazar: No, because being involved with many other classified projects, at the other labs that I worked with, you don't ask that. You just assume that they know what they are doing, and you are privileged to be in that project, so, you know...
Goodman: I can understand that. So you just felt honored being there, like you say.
Goodman: Wow. And you get home and sit there with the wife at the dinner table and not even talk about it.
Lazar: Well, that didn't last for too long.
Goodman: [Laughs.] I can imagine, I mean, How was you day today, dear, Anything exciting happen? What would you say?
Lazar: Ah... Not a whole lot... It caused a lot of friction.
Goodman: Sure. It did?
Lazar: Oh, yeah. A tremendous amount.
Goodman: Is that right. Because you couldn't speak up, you couldn't all about what was going on.
Goodman: Okay, we're talking with Bob Lazar, and Bob Lazar is a scientist. That's you're title, right, scientist?
Lazar: Physicist, but scientist is a good, all-round...
Goodman: Okay, right, okay, physicist is even better. And the reason I bring that up, Bob, is because many, any times on the Happening, people have said, oh, they've called in and, you know, and they've talked about it, but we've never had a scientist. Well, tonight, we have a scientist. This is your opportunity of a lifetime to get into a scientist's head. A young man, too. A man that people in the Las Vegas area have seen on television. Of course, the rest of you all the way down to Mexico and up into Canada haven't had that privilege, but you're hearing him tonight. Now, you're with Gene Huff, and Gene Huff is a good friend of yours. Is he a neighbor, is that it?
Lazar: No, just a friend.
Goodman: Just a friend.
Lazar: I guess he was the first person that I began to let the information out to, and, you know, he's really just followed through the whole thing from the day that I was hired there up to... I just kept him briefed on it.
Goodman: That must have been quite a position to be in, Gene?
Huff: Oh, right. I had been monitoring the general UFO researcher material, and when Bob got in the program I just used what he told me to try to ascertain what was the truth and try to sort out what was fact and what was fiction. It was actually a blessing, just a coincidence that we were friends and he got into the most secret program in the world.
Goodman: Were you into this UFO phenomenon as a person, as an individual?
Huff: I have been my whole life, I mean just things, Chariots of the Gods, Omni Magazine, any books that you could get your hands on. But it was really, tough, I mean, people like John Lear, Bill Cooper have all done a good job in at least getting people thinking, and then people can proceed and find out what they can.
Goodman: Well, I think that's where we're headed tonight, don't you agree? I mean, with Bob now telling us... And we're down to, we can now scratch out, I guess, as far as you're concerned, nothing as far as extraterrestrial activity is up at Area 51 or Groom Lake. Has that always been the case, because I heard, and I've also read, as I say, government papers, maybe they lie, but they said that Area 51 was the area where U-2 came out of.
Lazar: Oh, yeah. That's where the U-2 came out of, where the SR-71 came out of.
Goodman: I see.
Lazar: Lots of things came out of there. Maybe a disk went through there. They're just not stored and developed, worked on there. Sure, one may have rolled by there and someone may have... There have been lots of reports of people at Area 51 said, well, at one time I saw a disk in a hanger. That may have happened, but it wasn't there permanently.
Goodman: Bob, I have to tell you this, I guess you know by now, we took a group of people up there, about 200-some-odd people, and I was up there with them. I sat in the desert, and I watched, and here's how I could describe it. Now, picture the twenty-nine and a half mile marker, and we're looking out at these peaks, and there's nothing going all. All of a sudden, you look over the peak, and something comes up, and sort of almost appears over the peak. It's just a light, and you watch this light and you see it doing zigzags. Literally moving down and then coming about. Something had to... Now, are there planes that we have that do those kind of maneuvers?
Lazar: Well, without seeing it, I can't say, but... I mean, I know when the tests are. That's when I invited a few friends out to show them, John Lear and Gene Huff and someone else. The tests are only, have only been done on Wednesday nights. That's just the night, because statistically it's the night of least traffic in that area. They've never been done on the weekend. In fact, on Friday nights, everyone leaves there. It's just a minimal crew there. There's never been... in fact, one of the times when I brought people up there--I believe that was on a Wednesday night--and they just caught the four of us out there, and they canceled the whole test. A busload of people I don't think would ever get by security and they'd ever let a test go on. What you might have seen, I really can't say. Maybe something was in the air at the time, but the chances of it being on a weekend and something actually going on with that amount of people there is almost zero.
Goodman: Okay, so, if people do go to the 29-1/2 mile marker, now, they shouldn't look toward the peak straight ahead, they should look more to their left.
Lazar: Right, definitely to their left.
Goodman: Down range.
Goodman: Okay, in other words from the dirt road down to the left. So is that Hancock Summit or something like that?
Lazar: I don't know what the range is called there.
Goodman: Okay. We're talking with Bob Lazar. Let's take some telephone calls and find out where they're coming from. Would you like to do that?
Goodman: Okay, let's go. And who's up first? Zellie. Let's talk to Zellie. Hello, Zellie.
"Zellie": Hello, Billy. Hello, Bob. I watched you, Bob, on the Channel 8 program and, you know, my dog was barking when you were explaining the gravity theory. These craft don't use any type of gasolice, is that right?
Lazar: Any type of gasoline?
Lazar: No, they don't.
"Zellie": Okay, how do they get from "A" to "B"?
Lazar: They bend space and time using gravity.
"Zellie": Can you explain that to a layman like me in as simple terms as possible?
Goodman: And me.
Lazar: Okay, I can give a fairly accurate description. Ihaven't given this before, but I think this is the best one. The craft have three gravity amplifiers on the bottom of 'em. What they do is, assuming that they're in space--it's just easier to get this across that way--they will focus the three gravity amplifiers on the point that they want to go to. Now, to give you an analogy, if you take a thin rubber sheet, say, lay it on a table and put thumbs tacks in each corner. You take a big stone and set it on one end of the rubber sheet and say that that's your UFO or that's your spacecraft. You pick out a point that you want to go to, which could be anywhere on the rubber sheet, pinch that point with your fingers and pull that all the way up to the craft. That's how it focusses and pulls that point actually to it. When you then shut off the gravity generators, the stone or your spacecraft follows that stretched rubber back to its point. There's no linear travel through space. It actually bends space and time, and follows space as it retracts.
"Zellie": Is this kind of like a box that they have on the craft that does this gravity focussing?
Lazar: Well, it's a complete system, not a single little box.
"Zellie": Yeah, that is so hard to understand. Did you come across this easier to understand it, or did you just comprehend this over months or years or...
Lazar: No, it didn't really take very long. The concept is difficult to grasp but...
"Zellie": Oh, I'll say.
Goodman: Well, being a physicist, though, I guess you could handle that kind of a thing. You have to understand that, Zellie. This man, this young man is a physicist, scientist, so I guess this is what they've been taught over the years. Okay?
"Zellie": Okay. Thanks for that black sheet analogy. Appreciate it.
Goodman: Thanks for calling, Zellie.
Goodman: Bye- bye. Okay, that's Zellie. My guest is Bob Lazar. He's in studio tonight. Let's go down to Canyon Lake. That sounds like a beautiful place. Canyon Lake in California, and we find Jeff. Hi, Jeff.
"Jeff": How ya doin'?
Goodman: Terrific. How 'bout yourself?
"Jeff": Oh, I'm doing just fine. You know, last Saturday night, my cousin and I were out at Groom Lake, and we saw from the peaks that I think you were describing, Billy, a very similar experience. We saw the light originate over the top of the mountains then streak out to what it looked like, it looked like about a half a mile away from us, and then it just vanished. It lasted for about seven to ten seconds. And then my cousin saw another sighting that was off to the south where your guest described the site.
Goodman: Oh, really?
"Jeff": Yeah, and what was weird about it is that I got out the camera and I was just about ready to take a picture of this thing and it vanished. It, like, it vanished from the center out. It became transparent, and then all of a sudden it was gone. It was like nothing I have ever seen before, and it was very interesting to see. I'm wondering what that could have been. Does you guest know anything about that particular type of manifestation?
Goodman: Okay, we'll let them answer the phone, and thanks for the call, Jeff.
Goodman: Take care, buddy.
"Jeff": All right.
Goodman: What do you think about that, Bob?
Lazar: You know, of course, without seeing it, I really can't say, but... that's about all I can say, I guess. I really don't...
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